tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8476030038561997950.post2427367839026054746..comments2023-04-15T03:58:45.461-07:00Comments on It's a Really Long Way Down: Two out of three ain't bad...verylargecolthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18035418539530230889noreply@blogger.comBlogger96125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8476030038561997950.post-34680311268121128612008-07-03T10:01:00.000-07:002008-07-03T10:01:00.000-07:00On NH and whoa... It's not the method, it's the us...On NH and whoa... It's not the method, it's the user of the method that's faulty. If the trainer/handler requires precision in all things, they will get precision. Too many imprecise folks training horses is the problem...<BR/><BR/>My NH trained horses whoa at any gait, often as you think "whoa" and before you say it. As an old chicken, anything less is unacceptable for me. This means that I have to think twice before a repremand for stopping. I have to think "did I think Whoa for even half a second?"<BR/><BR/>I've had people tell me not to dily dally getting on and off my horses, because they get impatient. Well, my hot horse has learned to stand at the block for a half hour at a time while I get on and off, or sit there on his back for a minute before getting off again. He has learned not to take even a half a step without a cue.<BR/><BR/>I learned this with dogs a long time ago- require precision and you will get it, take what is offered and they will cheat you until bad habits set in. IMO horses are much smarter than dogs.<BR/><BR/>My noodle neck TB was fixed by introducing outside rein and shoulder control.<BR/><BR/>I agree that the crochet backed riding gloves are comfy and aloe & comfrey gel is very soothing and promotes rapid healing.<BR/><BR/>Glad you fell well! Hope your confidence doesn't take any hits from this. I started wearing a helmet after the last bolting incident I had. You should consider it. I mean, what would your horses do if you could no longer use your witty brain to write?borderbratzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13566589063334553231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8476030038561997950.post-57183419524158026732008-07-01T00:10:00.000-07:002008-07-01T00:10:00.000-07:00Ouch. I feel your pain. I learned the hard way tha...Ouch. I feel your pain. I learned the hard way that gloves are a good idea. I got launched by a zippy little Hannovarian lesson mare, and forgot to let go of the braided reins on the way down. In spite of landing with the small of my back across the dressage arena "rail" (whatever that's called), I wasn't hurt, except my hand, which ended up having the biggest blister I've ever seen, and a few good tears and scrapes. <BR/><BR/>I didn't have a chance to not get back on. My instructor went and got the lunge line... I eventually did learn to sit that mare's rather, uh "animated" canter.<BR/><BR/>Given that I make my living using a computer 8+ hours a day, that little injury reminded me how risky riding can be. Even though it wasn't a bad injury, it came close to putting me out on disability, right in the middle of a huge rush project.<BR/><BR/>It was shortly after that I dropped the idea of getting a zippy little mare for eventing, and found my big plodding goofball of a dressage prospect / trail horse. Funny the stupid things that can change our course.Linda Eskinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06865418673410329568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8476030038561997950.post-61993279070714399592008-06-30T20:02:00.000-07:002008-06-30T20:02:00.000-07:00I usually do a soft drawn out Aaand Hoooo, with th...I usually do a soft drawn out Aaand Hoooo, with the seat/rein aids on the Hooooo. <BR/><BR/>I can't think of a good reason for him not to know I have a plan.amarygmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08710889429149749284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8476030038561997950.post-86293166007089615292008-06-30T15:52:00.000-07:002008-06-30T15:52:00.000-07:00ellen said... >>I find to get a "whoa" that sticks...ellen said... <BR/>>>I find to get a "whoa" that sticks, visualizing it first, stilling my seat, and exhaling, dropping my weight through my seat into my heels, all help. I've had quite a few "rolling stop" critters, and sometimes (use with caution) having a step or two of reinback reinforces the halt. You don't want to make that automatic or set up another direction in which to resist, but sometimes it's useful to help the horse balance.<<<BR/><BR/><BR/>This is what I had to do with my TB mare whose stop is still iffy at times. To the point of closing my eyes a stride or two to "see it, feel it, do it" without pulling on the reins. <BR/><BR/>Put a hell of a 'jam on the brakes and bury your ass' stop on her so I have to be careful...<BR/><BR/>This on a mare who had bridle issues when I got her. Take a hold of the reins = up came the head and she sped up while bracing for the pull.Cut-N-Jumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03603347619547454296noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8476030038561997950.post-18443990834748518802008-06-30T15:43:00.000-07:002008-06-30T15:43:00.000-07:00joycemocha said... >>Another thing that my trainer...joycemocha said... <BR/>>>Another thing that my trainer emphasizes is that the word is "whooaaa." A soft, quiet, drawn out word, not a loud snapped sharp "HO!" He feels the latter tends to startle and scare a horse. My mare--who's been started and trained by his methods (gee, what did I expect, I bought her from him!) responds exquisitely well to that soft, drawn-out, "whoa."<<<BR/><BR/><BR/>YES! YES! YES! Whoa is spoken softly and calmly and almost ina sing song manner. STOPPING should be a GOOD relaxing thing for them.<BR/><BR/>They will listen and take the first sing of a calm quiet whooooa, to stop and do nothing. Which some of them would prefer doing in the pasture without the tack.<BR/><BR/>Think about it this way- would you rather have a boss shouting everything at you or calmly and quietly Asking you for things?<BR/><BR/>Ho as in prostitutes or hoe as in garden tools do not belong in horse training.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Also there is still only so much you can rely on when doing ground work and mounting up for the first few rides.<BR/><BR/>Everything you taught them up to the first few rides, generally goes out the window the moment you get on anyways. You can only hope to keep everything quiet and move on at the horses pace. If it starts to go a direction you don't want, keep things (yourself mainly) calm and relaxed and show them I am not freaking out and you have no reason to either.<BR/><BR/>Also if they are getting noodle necked, a lot of times it is from constant pulling on the reins to one side or the other. Take hold and release, if they do not respond tug, tug, tug, or bump, bump, bump. A constant pull will only give them the idea there is no release ever. Take hold and release, hold and release- there is nothing for them to hang on, pull against or fight with.<BR/><BR/>It's like using your leg- too much and they start to ignore it, too little and they race off at the slightest bit.Cut-N-Jumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03603347619547454296noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8476030038561997950.post-79459527751716385342008-06-30T15:30:00.000-07:002008-06-30T15:30:00.000-07:00VLC - I have to say I'm glad I'm not the only one ...VLC - I have to say I'm glad I'm not the only one who didn't get back on after getting a toss. It went against everything I was ever told and taught. BUT, at 41 I think a bit more. At the time I thought it was the saddle - a new-to-me test-drive semi-quarter bars saddle. He bucked when I stood up in 2-point to go up a hill. I figured it was his shoulders getting pinched. So my logic was, "why give him more pain? what will that teach?"<BR/><BR/>I still felt chicken shit though!<BR/><BR/>If you find out what helps rope burn, maybe it would work on my ego.ariemayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09975639199124579803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8476030038561997950.post-70907150533233233912008-06-30T14:42:00.000-07:002008-06-30T14:42:00.000-07:00TheUnicorn, I wish you were near me to help with m...TheUnicorn, I wish you were near me to help with my old schoolie. Now that I've got him adjusted by the chiro, its time to start making him behave -- <BR/><BR/>Sunday, I took Dude to the sand arena. I had my 10 year old daughter watching me and she says I'm banging him with my leg and that's why he's bucking. She would yell at me from the judge's booth (You're kicking him!" until I stopped. Later she demonstrated my banging versus a lovely following leg on her own horse. She's got talent. I'm so happy for her, and so sad I'm such a spazz. Its back to much trotting of figure 8's and hacking out for me and Dude. Sigh. I probably need to longe him, too, but he cut in on me the last time I tried it and scared the bejeebus out of me.<BR/><BR/>At least Dude's not insane, he just won't tolerate shitty riding. Which is what Katherine told me about him a long time ago. LOL.Redsmomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03473393390441394419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8476030038561997950.post-39439910375402876362008-06-30T10:26:00.000-07:002008-06-30T10:26:00.000-07:00Foxy's acrobatics are what contributed to the limp...Foxy's acrobatics are what contributed to the limping, I believe. She does have some lameness issues we are hopefully resolving, involving her front legs (mostly left front). However, she can be lunged (lightly) in the pasture quite well and we stop before any limping starts up out there. Very light walking and trotting, just a few laps in each direction at each speed. Basically a few minutes tops and that is it! It is a mini-lunging session. <BR/><BR/>She just seemed sour yesterday. There was no limping prior to the craziness. She snorted while being saddled which was weird. And then spooking away from me while walking was weird. The hard pulling back against the lungline is not a brand new thing, that is her favorite way of trying to avoid work. The extreme rodeo bronc bucking was very new, she has not bucked under saddle (other than the "incident") since she was saddled the first time. <BR/><BR/>The whole incident was very very out of character for her. However, honestly, her attitude was crappy while we tried to work. She was cranky and had her ears back and was just acting very much not in the mood for it. If she had been spooking and blowing and acting freaked out before, during or after the bucking...then I would think it was a pain or fear issue. But she was just disgruntled looking.<BR/><BR/>However, after the episodes, she did want to walk in towards me. Which is normal for her. And which kind of threw me as she was a rearing, bucking mess one minute and the next she was wanting to walk towards me with a normal look on her face. <BR/><BR/>I don't know, it was just the weirdest thing ever. In all honesty, I was not trying to ask for much. Just walk and trot under saddle! Not even any cantering. She did trot after the episodes okay, up until she was limping and had to stop. <BR/><BR/>Her somewhat off and on sour attitude has gradually been getting worse the longer they've had her best buddy QH Abby around. The other day when I went to catch her and she walked the opposite direction, out into the pond and rolled, then got out on the opposite side of the ditch, completely ignoring me? Perfect example of her recent attitude. Not all the time, but sometimes. Her ground manners otherwise are okay, stands tied, grooms fine, bathes okay, halters fine, etc etc.<BR/><BR/>I don't know if there is an actual issue there or just her realizing that a year of lazy retirement is coming to an end and she is complaining about the work. <BR/><BR/>I will go out today after work to check her over again just in case. But I feel like it is a barn sour issue more than anything. She was fine in her stall, okay other than the saddling/snorting....and fine once back in the barn and also fine back in her stall. Just out of the barn was where we had the problems. On a sidenote, all the other horses were in the barn while we worked. Everybody had already been fed, all Foxy's food was gone so she was not "pulled away from her dinner" or anything like that. <BR/><BR/>I do appreciate all the input on her issues. If all else fails, she'll be a pasture potato for the next (sigh) 20 years, but I really would like to get her going under saddle (again) if safely possible.MsFoxyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04482289086550471774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8476030038561997950.post-69752058784026434632008-06-30T09:02:00.000-07:002008-06-30T09:02:00.000-07:00Msfoxy sage is right -- when something is obviousl...Msfoxy sage is right -- when something is obviously that far out of character for a horse it almost always indicates discomfort. Refusing to go forward on the longe when she usually doesn't was the first clue, along with the unaccustomed tension when you were leading her. <BR/><BR/>This sounds odd but, if your mare is on the "fluffy" side, you might want to investigate how clean her teats are -- my rotund lesson mare occasionally gets crud balled up in there (and try to FIND them, she's a fat maiden mare) and it makes her terrifically uncomfortable and cranky, especially in hot weather.<BR/><BR/>You said your horse had some lameness issues that were resolving -- limping off after the longeing would not be unusual? Perhaps she was having a flareup of whatever her injury is and in HER mind, working, especially longeing which is a lot of stress on legs, was not the best thing for her owee. Horses are pretty smart that way. <BR/><BR/>A lot of times it's necessary to keep our own agendas as trainers flexible, and listen to what is going on with the horse -- as I've been told by several good teachers, you "work the horse you have" on any given day.ellenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01762077847614621317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8476030038561997950.post-50017770347822279632008-06-30T07:04:00.000-07:002008-06-30T07:04:00.000-07:00Foxy; From what you relate- and you have provide...Foxy; <BR/><BR/> From what you relate- and you have provided a good amount of pertinent detail- your experience seems so far outside the norm of your mare's usual behavior that I would suspect something physical, a bur under her blanket, a bee sting in the girth area, or something like that, to account for her unwonted reaction. I think it is particularly telling that she kept turning to you for assistance. You may never know what it was but it doesn't sound like a mood swing to me.<BR/><BR/> SSagebrusheqhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05490175290841527388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8476030038561997950.post-36272152547590452602008-06-29T23:49:00.000-07:002008-06-29T23:49:00.000-07:00msfoxy:I learned something valuable from my traine...msfoxy:<BR/><BR/>I learned something valuable from my trainer, he said basically translated, not every day is the same, some days the horse is off, and some days you are off. If it isn't working, it is better to get one little circle around the roundpen without a or challenge. And, call it a day. Especially if you're taken aback. Instead of forcing the mare through it, rather say...ok, today's a crap day. Find one positive note to end it.austriancurlshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03015633298952678666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8476030038561997950.post-75622900474248042362008-06-29T23:31:00.000-07:002008-06-29T23:31:00.000-07:00Mine was crazy too! Is there like tectonic plate m...Mine was crazy too! Is there like tectonic plate movement or something we don't know about? <BR/><BR/>I blogged about it, if anyone can offer advice, I'm willing to listen.<BR/><BR/>www.horsenoob.blogspot.comamarygmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08710889429149749284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8476030038561997950.post-35806686738887636522008-06-29T22:38:00.000-07:002008-06-29T22:38:00.000-07:00Dang..equus..msfoxy...maybe they're all mentally c...Dang..equus..msfoxy...maybe they're all mentally connected, saying "let's f*** with our riders this week, whaddaya say, guys?" (80<BR/><BR/>My lil' Icepony is so steady, even for a green-broke horse. He's been on the trail many times now, very little bothers him. Cars along the road sure haven't bothered him before, and I wasn't tense; in fact, just the opposite. He was gaiting so well and so animated, that I was just enjoying it. Then--wham! Spins around like some Ay-rab, I hit the ground, and get the dreaded view of the hind end of my horse high-tailing it down the road.<BR/> To his defense, my trainer pointed out that he might have gotten beaned on the arse by a rock kicked up by the passing car...robynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01001532366083423219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8476030038561997950.post-52873729057476704612008-06-29T18:43:00.000-07:002008-06-29T18:43:00.000-07:00What the hell is in the water? I went out and sadd...What the hell is in the water? I went out and saddled Foxy up to lunge today. She was a little weird walking out to the pasture, I put my hand up to push her away or bump her back or something...not even sure what. And she spooked backwards like I was ready to beat her. Weirdo. We kept walking on and started to lunge, she was very balky and head shaky. <BR/><BR/>I hate hate hate to lunge with a bridle and reins attached. I worry about her getting tangled in the reins if she gets pissy. I ended up getting too too nervous and taking off the bridle to lunge with just the saddle. She was still balky, didn't even want to move into a trot. She was jogging slowly and ignoring my clucks...so I swung the end of the lead rope at her (which I do all the time while lunging if I dont have a whip). She EXPLODED. Spun to face me, pulled back hard, reared a bit and then hit the ground bucking. Full on rodeo bronc bucking. Quite a few, over and over and over. Not the cold backed back humping, or "full of it" bucks or crow hops while lunging. Full on, bucking like a horse who was saddled for the first time. It was seriously all I could do to hold onto her. She wasn't really going anywhere, mostly just bucking in place. Turning and going in different directions but not trying to really get anywhere. Other than AWAY from work. <BR/><BR/>By the time she stopped, I was totally freaked out. So unfortunately, I just stood there trying to regroup (to say this was unexpected would be the understatement of the year) although I did realize while that it was the wrong response. I really needed to push her through it and not let her rest as a reward. I did end up asking her to go out and trot more...she did it unhappily a few circles, we switched directions and were going and she did it AGAIN. Stopped and spun to face me, pulled backwards hard with a half rear and then landed bucking. She was just sour as can be. It was not as bad that time. When she stopped bucking I asked her to back a bit and then to continue lunging. She trotted a bit both directions after that but was limping pretty badly within a very very short period of time and we had to call it a day. What the hell is in the water? <BR/><BR/>That was the worst behavior I have EVER had out of her. Ever. It was actually possibly worse than the first time we saddled her and she bucked all over the damn place. Now I am thinking back to the night she threw me and wondering if she really did spook and bolt and buck me off.....or if she bolted and bucked me off because she was just pissy. Iy yi yi.MsFoxyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04482289086550471774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8476030038561997950.post-2567378582022263592008-06-29T14:10:00.000-07:002008-06-29T14:10:00.000-07:00I am so glad I read this before I rode last week.....I am so glad I read this before I rode last week...I had decided to canter bareback finally, but when I got PrimaDonnaDiva (and it was a stormy day between storms) I could tell right away she was not all "there"...we walked, trotted, and when I asked for a canter, she jackhammer-trotted, tail-swished, tried to graze (I was riding in a rope halter in case I lost balance - do not want to pull on her mouth, she had enough of that during her year plus being a lesson horse)...was over all just ignoring me. I debated on getting my dressage whip (she barely needs a touch anymore with that) but by that time I was *tired* from staying on that fast trot...so I just chalked it up to another practice session for me in balancing...<BR/><BR/>Rode her today in the saddle and she was great...even canter-counterd when I asked (we have not worked on flying changes, though she has done them naturally by herself). Maybe tomorrow we'll go bareback and canter...HorsesAndTurboshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03607758320356759231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8476030038561997950.post-74462246320744948012008-06-29T13:10:00.000-07:002008-06-29T13:10:00.000-07:00Huh. Reading your and Mugwumps blogs is an educat...Huh. Reading your and Mugwumps blogs is an education - we do things so very differently. Reminds me of what an old teacher of mine used to say - with horses, if it doesn't work, you can always try something else. Simple, but apposite. <BR/><BR/>I'm not really familiar with this one rein stop business, so ymmv as to how helpful this is, but noodle neckedness is usually what I'd call the horse not being through, and can have many causes.<BR/>I see from the photo the SSG (it could be a bad angle, feel free to correct) has a short, slightly tight set neck and as such is a classic candidate for setting at his shoulders.<BR/>As others have said, sometimes with a horse like this groundwork is the key, esp. driving.<BR/>What I'd do with this from the saddle, is work on driving him into a resisting hand from my leg / back to halt and turn, to create the connection. <BR/>If you don't have the weight in your hand to do that, then you need to do the groundwork first. If you already have a good contact and weight in your hand most of the time, then it's probably more that you need to get him moving through and free up his shoulders so that he can't set his neck onto them as easily.<BR/><BR/>However, I ride english, and I'm not sure you're training him in the same style?FDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01485030894416936129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8476030038561997950.post-69033880431278580942008-06-29T12:29:00.000-07:002008-06-29T12:29:00.000-07:00maybe it was something in the water: i, too, went ...maybe it was something in the water: i, too, went flying through the air and landed flat on my back last tuesday evening. thank god i had my helmet on cause i really wacked my head. first fall in over 27 years, and let me tell you, it hurts as much as you think it will!! i used to go off my first horse regularly (whether i needed to or not, ha ha!), but then i have been lucky since 1981 with not hitting the ground. <BR/><BR/>little crap-weasel also didn't want to be girthed up (he never minds the saddling, girthing process) and then he was just "not there" mentally for the riding. after i went off, i made myself get back on and ride for another 10 minutes, until he literally freaked out when he couldn't see what was walking next to the gate at the opposite end of the arena (it was my dog). very scary. i have never ridden a horse that mentally zoned out. so i just dismounted at that point. thank god hubby was there to grab zoned out horse so that i could dismount without yet another fall.<BR/><BR/>57 is too old to be riding crap-weasels!!equushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08222942577935781347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8476030038561997950.post-39953217962921045132008-06-29T08:36:00.000-07:002008-06-29T08:36:00.000-07:00A friend of mine arrived at the barn before me, so...A friend of mine arrived at the barn before me, so i told her to catch my horse with hers for when I got there. She said he was all prancey and then when I arrived he nearly bowled her over to see me once he heard my voice. <BR/><BR/>Funny cuz when I show up to get him from pasture he looks at me then goes back to eating and pretending I'm not there half the time.amarygmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08710889429149749284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8476030038561997950.post-42168398759538549892008-06-28T20:53:00.000-07:002008-06-28T20:53:00.000-07:00Josie has done all the ground work with the SSG. E...Josie has done all the ground work with the SSG. Except for one session, I've never done a damn thing with him. I always assume it carries over, but perhaps it doesn't so much. <BR/>~~~~~~~<BR/><BR/>This is a good point, b/c haven't you said that the SSG is very attached to his momma Josie? I've seen this w/ my TWH--when someone else rides him, he tests a bit, but mostly his attitude is "well, YOU'RE not my mama, so I don't HAVE to do what YOU say!"<BR/><BR/>I asked my trainer about the noodle-neck thing this am when I had a lesson. She said that this often happens w/ horses that have been overworked w/ bending their heads around (like w/ NH), and suggested that you use more indirect rein to keep him straightened up. A bit oversimplified, but I guess that's the gist of what others here have suggested too.robynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01001532366083423219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8476030038561997950.post-42835698856384329932008-06-28T19:17:00.000-07:002008-06-28T19:17:00.000-07:00Horsegal - CONGRATS! Nothing like having a good fi...Horsegal - CONGRATS! Nothing like having a good first show!verylargecolthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18035418539530230889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8476030038561997950.post-80753594151208759432008-06-28T18:36:00.000-07:002008-06-28T18:36:00.000-07:00Jackie, shoot me an email and I'll be happy to sen...Jackie, shoot me an email and I'll be happy to send you pictures -- but if you want "rideable" she's a yearling -- rideable EVENTUALLY is not quite the same thing!<BR/><BR/>She is a darlin' for sure.ellenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01762077847614621317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8476030038561997950.post-54118064656972345842008-06-28T18:06:00.000-07:002008-06-28T18:06:00.000-07:00hmm aloe vera, but maybe you should get gloves for...hmm aloe vera, but maybe you should get gloves for possible future exeriences? :)CrypticQueenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17049187463685095121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8476030038561997950.post-42294586205281411692008-06-28T17:23:00.000-07:002008-06-28T17:23:00.000-07:00Geez..I'm so glad I'm waiting for a "ridable" seco...Geez..I'm so glad I'm waiting for a "ridable" second horse...Ellen, your appy sounds like something I'd love and I'm in MI....HorsesAndTurboshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03607758320356759231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8476030038561997950.post-81597489473923521442008-06-28T16:34:00.000-07:002008-06-28T16:34:00.000-07:00Sorry Mary my computer about threw a rod trying to...Sorry Mary my computer about threw a rod trying to install the yahoo messenger program -- here's my email altofarm@hotmail.comellenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01762077847614621317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8476030038561997950.post-22601082149414862222008-06-28T15:16:00.001-07:002008-06-28T15:16:00.001-07:00Mary I am trying to install that program but not h...Mary I am trying to install that program but not having much luck. Email would be easier -- I can send you pictures of the filly (Blue Moon), her dam and granddam, and links to pictures and pedigrees of her maternal grandparents (both ApHC hall of famers) and her sire.<BR/><BR/>Mt. Vernon is only an hour away from here.ellenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01762077847614621317noreply@blogger.com